Many people are hopeful about the idea of universal basic income, and if there were a referendum on it I would probably vote yes. But it's not where we should be pinning our hopes.
It's perfectly possible for UBI to coexist with a total dystopia. As more jobs become automated, UBI could keep us in a state of suspended animation, neither living nor dead - but surviving in involuntary idleness and atrophy, competing fiercely for precarious work that lets us live properly for brief periods.
Similarly, the state would threaten to shut off UBI as a punishment for different types of non-compliance. If you refuse to fill in a census, perform military service, accept objectionable work---your total dependence on the state would make withdrawal of UBI a crushing punishment.
Since nearly all the work is now automated, withdrawal of labour power would no longer be a method of resistance for the state's abuse of the UBI system.
@batko The latter happens with welfare now. Transforming it into UBI would at least take away the stigma/pressure to get a job.
@batko or perhaps the realization of UBI in one state catalyzes UBI-like policy in others due to public insistence on the right/desire to travel?
@wendango There may be agreements on the right to receive UBI abroad - e.g. between EU states or an EU-wide UBI scheme. But I doubt that would be the general rule.
@batko do you think the dynamics you're speculating about might happen regardless of how UBI is introduced, or are you considering some specific conditions?
@batko I guess I'm thinking specifically of how the politics of UBI in the U.S. might behave if its introduced as expanded state welfare vs. as a public option with low work requirements. (i.e. you can work in private industry, or spend some amount of time doing public service in exchange for UBI). state welfare might result in the kinds of requirements you're predicting, but I'm not sure about other schemes
@wendango It may vary; Scandinavian countries may have a different attitude from the US, for example. But I think on the whole the tendency of liberal democracy is to follow what capitalism needs to expand & extract money out of people, & welfare systems that give people freedom & dignity without having to work are probably going to be seen as an obstacle by the public/politicians sooner or later & revised into something "tough" & "good for the economy". 20th C SocDem collapsed, so will this.
@batko Fundamentally, UBI will only work if it is truly UNIVERSAL. (Not providing UBI for current prisoners might make some sense, granted) But it would need to be a federal program to prevent the state abuses you highlight and to prevent a race-to-the-bottom on UBI like we see with taxes and regulation.
@batko UBI needs to redistribute substantial wealth from capitalists to the "[economically] useless class", plus our electoral and governance systems need substantial reform to remove money's influence and properly effect equal representation of all populations (e.g. #NPV, #RCV, comprehensive #campaignfinance regulation, lift House seat cap), if we want a potentially stable capitalist system (not prone to violent overthrow by the lower classes) in a post-labor economy w/UBI.
@batko I mean beneficiaries are used as a political pawn already to their disadvantage. UBI would be similarly abused by the political class. If you accept a gift that you need from them you become theirs. The socialist needs to be committed to providing the basic necessities to the working class via the facilitation of mutual aid.
@batko i'll be out there holding the picket sign that says "fully automated luxury socialism or bust"
@batko in some way that's already a solved game, isn't it? ssi, medicaid and so on have shown the bare minimum the capitalists must pay to keep the people under control
Once UBI is introduced, the markets would likely respond by making it practically a necessity to survive.
This would be compounded by the state attaching certain conditions to UBI, producing a powerful tool of control. The state will demand that you be resident in the country to receive it; accordingly, states will demand that you be resident there for at least 10 years before offering it, reducing people to financial prisoners in their place of birth.