Ok so I've been thinking of something.
Cars need to be build to wistand 120km/h+ and are therefore kind of heavy and polluting.

But, in cities, where you can't go over 30km/h, why could we not phase out the concept of cars, and replace them by bikes and electric bikes ?

For a huge city like, you would need to combine the metro system with distribution too, to make it easier to move stuff around. I'm not sure how well it scales but it could be used in some cities.

@dirtycommo I wonder if the usage could be expanded to commuters

@dirtycommo @kropot I see parents everyday bringing their kids to school and doing the groceries (the big ones) with cargo bikes like these ones

Can fit 2 or 3 kids! They usually have some electric assistance.

The thing I find hard about these cargo is that in an accident (frontal or lateral), the kids in the front would meet an horrible fate... (totally implying that the cars would not care/see the front part that is low to the ground...)

@Antot @dirtycommo how about having a flag in front? Anybody could do there own flag, it would be pretty cool !

Also, I wonder how much they cost. I'd feel kind of bummed if I left it in the street and it disappeared in a few minutes...

@kropot @dirtycommo A flag could be great but that wont protect anyone against the dumbass drivers in my town... I'm often dreaming about proper cycling infrastructure, separated road and bikepaths, protected turns and roundabouts...

They cost quite a lot, from what I could see, it is between 1000€ and more than 4000€ (for a full electric brand-name)
But even for 1000€ it looks like a really good bike

@kropot @dirtycommo

This company also sells addons: for about 800€ you can replace your front wheel with a 2-wheeled contraption. I talked with someone on the street that had one and he was quite happy!

And big plus on the fact that you may repurpose an old bike for the rear

It is mostly standard parts and metal tubing, I guess you could DIY it without much trouble!

@kropot These are intriguing ideas. If you're interested in digging deeper, there are a lot of articles online about the Dutch 'bike+train' concept (though many of them in Dutch, I'm afraid), and Steven Fleming's Velotopia is a really inspiring concept.


@Stoori i'd love if you could send a few links my way, worse comes to worse i'll translate them :eyethink:

Now the 100$ question : does it scale ?

@kropot The velotopia concept scales well. Steven Fleming's own sketches talk about a city of 5 million inhabitants which is possible to cycle through in 30 mins.

@kropot Current bike+train concept in the NL is that you park your bike in a garage, take a train and then use a sharebike in your destination. That scales well. For example in Utrecht there are around 30 000 bike places in garages around the station (where about 200k people take a train every day).

Another concept, where you could take your own bike on a train, doesn't scale as easily, as the whole station infrastructure and train cars would need to be redesigned.

@kropot The BicycleDutch blog featuring the video is a good read in English about Dutch bike infrastructure.

@kropot Anyway, I've seen many statistics that in the cities of NL about 40 % of all train passengers arrive by bike, and about 40 % of all cyclists are heading to or from a train station.

@kropot especially in cities <1 million people, this seems hey feasible. And it has the added benefit of opening up *a lot* of space that was previously road!

@kropot Horace Dedieu's "Micromobility" podcast is great if you're interested in this. He is a world leader in this relatively new field

@Elmkast thanks for the heads up ! I'm gonna look into it :)

@kropot covers this topic. It's something I'd like to see, but it's also ableist? I think anyway.

@puffinus_puffinus I fail to see how going car free could be ableist ?

I mean, electric wheel chairs and such exist and negate the need for cars in such context ?

I'm open to explainations

I think that view is okay, I'm just saying that a kind of "all people should use bikes, not cars" attitude very quickly excludes certain people from easy transport. I'm a very able cyclist who does not own a car, so I'm on the other side of the spectrum. I'm just trying to be careful I guess. There are even cycle & electric powered rickshaws that can help the less able get around.

@kropot @puffinus_puffinus I hope it's ok to add something here. As a scooter user, I can't use it so much in cooler weather, because as part of my chronic illness, the cold triggers awful pain, even with goddess knows how many layers. So without a taxi/car, I couldn't get out much from say Nov to Feb. And in good weather, sometimes I use a taxi/car to get to an appointment as I don't have the energy to get there even with my scooter. Cars are mobility aids too :)

@GwenfarsGarden @kropot Do you think the heated interior of a small electric / human-powered rickshaw-like vehicle that doesn't travel above 30mph would be okay for you to travel in?

@puffinus_puffinus @kropot definitely. If it could pick me up/drop me off like a taxi would, I'd be all for it.

It's frustrating as I actually have an electric bike, but can no longer use it because of my health. Am keeping it in the hope one day my health will improve, or they find a cure!

@GwenfarsGarden @kropot I guess it's a viable solution then. There are already similar (though not enclosed) rickshaws in use in London, I saw quite a few in use.

@puffinus_puffinus @kropot if it had some kind of insulation and was enclosed. In fact, the original pics @kropot posted shows some ideas that I'm sure could be adapted. Or changing say a Thai Tuk Tuk into electric power. In fact, I just looked it up and they already exist

@kropot I'd say one of the reasons people drive cars is so that they can have it warm in winter and cold in summer. also to have a private space as opposed to shared public transport. hard to bring them to give up this convenience.

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